An interview with Debran Rowland

1. What motivated you to write The Boundaries of Her Body…?
A great many things, chief among them that we seem to be living in a time when women as individuals are being erased in the law. The language of many laws being enacted today speak specifically of "unborn children with freedom and rights." This is not a mistake. It is a calculated measure intended to put living women "with rights and freedoms" at odds with those of "their unborn children." Thus, when women make certain choices (i.e., birth control, the morning after pill, abortion, selective reduction) that are lawful but that others don’t like, they condemn women as "people who don’t care about children" or, worse, as "murderers" and "slave masters" as recently defeated Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum did in his best selling book.

I’m talking specifically of reproductive rights. But that attitude spills over to other areas, and that is the intent. It is about intimidation and a kind of intended (male) brutality. People often suggest that "feminism" is the problem. But the real problem here is that the world changed, and all of this is about a "way of life." Some people would say "the American way of life." Those people generally want the 1950s back. They want no busing, a heterosexual "family unit," and wives who serve their husbands and families. We know rationally that this picture is out of step with our times. But that doesn’t stop people from wanting it back.

What troubled me most when I wrote The Boundaries of Her Body… and what continues to trouble me today is that they are winning. An abortion procedure has now been outlawed by the United States Supreme Court. (I predicted that.) And last month, that same Court outlawed busing. Does that make any sense in a nation that was founded on diversity and whose Constitution speaks of equality and equal protection? Probably not. But it does get us closer to the 1950s.

2. Since Boundaries was published in 2004, Bush was reelected and Supreme Court upheld the partial-birth abortion ban, among many other things affecting women’s health and freedom. Do you see yourself ever writing a second volume?
I do (after the current one I’m working on is finished). The problem I’m having is that publishers perhaps reflecting America, perhaps reflecting Wall Street don’t seem to care and/or to be invested in these kinds of books anymore. Generally, publishing seems to have followed the lead of newspapers. Once upon a time, the print media and many book publishers saw themselves as public services. They had to stay in the black. But they weren’t preoccupied with profits. If it happened, wonderful. But that wasn’t the absolute goal.

But these days, most publishers certainly the big ones seem only to want to publish a book if they can assure themselves that it will be a bestseller. And the way they tend to do that is by courting big names, Hollywood types, or (in one case), a porn star. To get those folks, publishers promise big advances (eight million dollars in the case of Hillary Clinton). That means people like me get squeezed. Our books are often assessed as "mid-list" works that "doesn’t sell." And they may be right.

People are reading less. But we also seem to have a problem with getting young women even educated young women to pay attention to their history. (You would be an exception.) This actually appears to be an American problem, generally. Somewhere in recent history, we became a culture that cares more about partying and "personal rights" than preserving the collective rights that allow people to party and make mistakes and to recover from those mistakes. That is what the politics of "choice" were once about. But we don’t seem to know that anymore.

3. Boundaries focuses solely on American women and American law, yet as a volunteer for Chicago Legal Volunteers, you handled civil-rights based immigration cases. Have you handled any cases where reproductive or domestic violence issues were present?
I tend to handle cases where women have been victimized. Domestic violence may be one aspect. But women need help in almost every context. People tend to think that immigration law only involves people who entered America illegally or who have nothing to offer this country. But immigration happens to be a complex and emerging area of the law. In terms of American history, the United States is a nation of immigrants. We have always embraced the skills and talents of immigrants.

I’m comfortable defending the rights of immigrants, largely because the picture is very far removed from the suggestions we see in the media. In the last two cases I handled, for example, the women were here legally. They came in search of education, something America has always permitted. Both were victimized in America. Horribly, that victimization rendered them "so damaged" that they would likely have been murdered in "honor killings" by family members in they were sent home.

Defending women in such circumstances is in accord with The Boundaries of Her Body… But even if it weren’t, I would do it. Civil rights issues due process, equal protection, etc. can arise in any context, including immigration. By the way, I don’t only handle cases for Chicago Legal Volunteers. I volunteer for other agencies as well, though at the moment, I’m just working on my next book. And on occasion, I defend men too. (I’m not sexist.) But my interest is in defending women and empowering girls. We are a fabulous gender.

4. In a previous interview, you were asked what we can teach our daughters. What can we teach our sons?
I think boys our sons are on their way. Part of this is our new history. In this "new America" of the last 50 years, women work (more today than ever, despite media reports suggesting that women are all "staying home to raise babies"). I have two nephews, for example, who have a mom who works, a grandmother who worked (hard), and aunts who work. We all do different things and we are all at a place in our lives where we have earned a few stripes.

Thus, they understand women as educated, generally equal individuals, because they are growing up in a society where – from their perspective women are at least equal. And I say at least equal, because little boys fall in love with women who take care of them. Life hasn’t completely reversed itself on the home front. Thus, women are still doing a lot of the things at home that make their little boys fall in love with them. And though that is not quite equal, it is a wonderful thing.

It may be true that some of these boys will grow up to be "macho men." But I think the world is changing and I believe boys are changing with it. I think the last eight years have been tough on women. But I don’t think that is reflective of America. But maybe I’m just being hopeful, probably because I love the people my nephews are becoming. And I think they are pretty typical. They not only respect women. They adore women. They are thankful that we teach them things and that we help them. And that, I think, is how it is supposed to be: Respectful.

5. Boundaries is an extensive legal history meant to inform women of the facts. Instead of lawyer to client or author to reader, what would you tell your readers woman-to-woman?
Probably a joke. The Boundaries of Her Body…, is a serious book. I am a pretty serious person. But I’m also a goof. So, every once in a while, you might find a snide remark or a joke in The Boundaries… When I lecture, I tend to make lots of jokes. I think humor is important. But as to the question of what I would say woman-to-woman, it would probably depend upon the crowd.

Older women tend to want information. Young women tend to want guidance. If there is a universal bit of information I might offer to all women it is that we need to be more proactive and to organize! There is a "war" going on. Young women can and should use the internet to inform their "sisters" of issues and problems and events coming up. Older women should too. But they can also use their contacts in the world to boycott anti-woman corporations and to lobby legislators. We can change the world. We are changing the world. The problem is that others want very much to change it back.